Part 2 of 2: In this dynamic conversation, Sifu Scott Jensen welcomes Sifu Kisu Stars—renowned Northern Shaolin master and martial arts choreographer for Avatar: The Last Airbender—for a heartfelt discussion on real Kung Fu, the pursuit of mastery, and the inner journey of the martial artist.
Part 2 of 2 of this insightful interview continues the rich conversation between Sifu Scott Jensen and Sifu Kisu Stars, offering rare insight into the heart of traditional Kung Fu training and the inner mechanics of mastery.
Highlights from Part 2 of 2 include:
Why stance work is the soul of Kung Fu and how real power is generated from the ground up
Behind the scenes of choreographing Avatar: The Last Airbender and translating real Kung Fu into animated movement
The deeper value of forms, weapons training, and sparring as lifelong tools for health, confidence, and personal growth
What separates true martial artists from "instant Sifus" and how social media culture threatens the integrity of the arts
Why traditional Kung Fu is still relevant—and vital—in a modern world
This episode is both a tribute and a call to action: to preserve, practice, and protect authentic lineage martial arts before they fade. If you're searching for more than just fitness or fighting, tune in for wisdom forged through decades of training and teaching.
💥 Step onto the path. Practice deeply. Become the best version of yourself.
Hi everybody. Thanks for tuning in and tuning up. This is Scott Jensen with my ancient wisdom, modern health podcast.(...) Here I share and explain how to get and stay healthy with Tai Chi, Qi Gong and Kung Fu.(...) Mixing interviews with incredible people and my own insights and experiences.(...) We look for timeless wisdom and proven practices to be healthy and happy today.
Today, my guest is Sifu Kisu Stars.
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Sifu Kisu is a lifelong daily practitioner and master instructor of Northern Shaolin Kung Fu.
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highly charged tournament scene of the 1980s and 1990s, Kisu earned a well-deserved reputation for his explosive high-kicking and many victories.
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Today, Sifu Kisu is most well-known for the outstanding choreography and martial law he brought to the original animated Avatar TV series.
we're talking about Kung Fu, Northern Shaolin Kung Fu, and how to become a master.
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I think one of the things that
the Kisu and I've talked about many times is that a lot of people do the stances and then they do the hands or they might even do the hands and the stance at the same time, but their hands aren't actually linked to their stance or their step, the stance and the step for them. They're, they're getting into the stance and it's like a castle. And then, then they launched the punches from there, but they're not actually using the step or the weight shift or the, or the, the turn, the actual transition from a horse stance to better instance to develop power. And when I see somebody actually really working their stances and actually driving, you know, functional power from their stances, then I get excited. And I think that's something that I don't see every day. And I think that's the thing that's completely lacking. You've got to move from the stance. When we were developing Avatar, we were doing the work on that.(...) We were trying to get it across to the animators of, of, you know, how to bring this kung fu alive into this kind of magical, you know, bending arts affair.
most of the animators saw the stance as just a cool pose to be in as opposed to something that, um,
from yin to the yang from, from substantial to insubstantial and so on and so forth.
that was one of the most difficult things to get across to those guys was that the stance was a vehicle to carry the upper body to the fight or away from the fight. Right.
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Absolutely. It just,
stance is actually when it's done, right. That's where the power comes from.
That's actually how we develop the power. And if you're not doing the stance, right. You just can't expect to have the power.(...)
this is what we're talking about when we're saying, you know, we really want to see the basics and we want to see, you
if somebody is an expert, we really want to see your stances. We really want to see how you transition from one stance to the other. And are you able to use that transition to drive the power of everything else that happens in your body?
If you don't have stances, you don't have kung fu.
It's as simple as
And not to, you
place it in some qualitative realm or anything, but
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you, for your own personal development is you want to become
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intimately familiar with the stances. It's like most people are just visiting. It's like, it's like having a relationship, a loving relationship,
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over time there's a rapport, right. And then over time there is, you know, the true intimacy and love. It's the same thing with the kung fu. There's a getting acquainted phase. And then there's the familiarity phase. And then there's the intimacy phase.
I love it. I love it.
in the end, the essence is all the same.
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But a step is a step. A punch is a punch. A kick is a kick. A grab is a grab and the throw is a throw. There's, there's, there's nothing new under the sun, right? If you're going to, even if you're doing MMA, it's the same thing.
got one of those four options, nothing else. That's what I think they call that in traditional kung fu
hits.
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I hope I don't discourage anyone in the audience from training, you know, to say that, oh, this is really hard. It's,
most people don't really want to learn the martial arts. Most people, they want to be Bruce Lee. And I think that's a really good thing. I think that's a really good thing. I think that's a really good thing. I think that's a really good thing. I think that's a really good thing. And I think it's, it's really good to learn the martial arts. Most people, they want to be Bruce Lee, but they don't want to do the work that Bruce Lee did.
Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.
this whole process of, you
loving your stances and developing your stances.
one thing to mention here is, is this isn't sort of a generic thing either. Like how each style does their stances and even within each school and how they transition their weight and how they can develop their power,
a little bit of a different language there, a little, little bit of a secret sauce about how each style uses those stances and uses that body method and acquiring that secret sauce is when you actually become sort of a fluent speaker in the language of the style. And if, and if you don't have that,
you're sort of still on the surface of the style, still on the outside of it.
Well, you know, I think, I think part of it too is, is, um, to me, one of the, one of the great things about this in terms of a health method is actually there's a lot to learn and I think that's an advantage because, you know, you go to, go to the weightlifting gym. I mean, my total instruction weightlifting in the gym. I mean, it's like, it took one day,
But there's so much to learn and so much depth to learn, even in the foundation,
many people think of the stances as something that stationary or static, and it's really about the movement. Oh, it's a lot. Is the transition from what it's, it's the, it's the stance, stand like a mountain, transition like the wind, and then stand like a mountain again.
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a lot of people miss that one. Yeah, it's not just about posing at the end of something, it's actually the essence of the movement from place to place and
power of the wind comes from those legs. What's really important here is
figuring out a way just to make yourself, my teacher says kung fu is about having a good life, making yourself happy,
know yourself, know your enemy and a thousand battles you'll never be defeated, that's so true,
a lot
learn in kung fu. Again, I'm a little afraid that kung fu as I know it, as I learned it, may not be around in a few more years.
don't know, I never got as good as I wanted to be.
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I trained really hard, I trained for a long time. Again, I still train several days a week,
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but it's a lifelong pursuit.
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Well, if the essence of kung fu is hard work and we're pretty clear that it's gonna take a little bit of effort,
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why would anyone go through with it all? Why wouldn't anyone eat bitter and go to all these classes and
all of this? Well, hopefully you never get in a fight.
Let's say you practice with the sword, right? We're probably never gonna get in a sword fight. Probably almost never, the likelihood is very low, right? But just understanding the alignment of what it takes to be able to fight with the sword or to be able to fight with any of the 18 traditional weapons.
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Some are long, some are short, right? Some are solid, some are flexible.
sharp, have one edge, two edge, some are on the end of a rope, right? And what that does in the overall is for self-defense is anything becomes a weapon in your hands, right? And then also it's, again, the health benefits and self-defense is a health benefit in my opinion, right? You stop somebody from stomping you into the ground, you'd be a little more healthy. (Both Laughing)
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So
good for the soul.
it's deeper than you think it is. And the longer you
you spend at it, the more you meditate on it, the deeper and the more powerful the experience becomes
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You know, I just think about my own students and I've seen many times people that started and the ones that stuck around
years later, they're 10 years older, but they're healthier and stronger
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and more confident and happier in every single way than the day they started. You know, they're more flexible, they have better balance, they're better coordinated, they've learned how to protect themselves, they've learned how to avoid trouble,(...) they've learned
things give you
enormous confidence that you all have, you know? There's something I've noticed, especially with my advanced students, and that is, we were talking about this the other day,
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out of my advanced students,
each one of those people is at the top of their game in their profession.(...) And I would really like to think that the kung fu training had something to do with that. Some of my students are soldiers(...) and they've come back and told me how some tiny thing that I taught them saved their life in a battle.
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kung fu is useful.
I think the big part of it is you've just gotta find out what to use it for
not about fighting, but it is about fighting. It's not about beating up people, but it kinda is.
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I'm being silly, but in the end, I could sit here and tell you about kung fu all day. Go out there and get some.
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Find it, do it, practice it. Take it to its highest level. Take you to your highest level.
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Some people wonder, is traditional kung fu any good for a fight? And we've seen some videos of kung fu masters getting beat up by MMA guys. Quote kung fu masters. Quote kung fu masters. Getting beat up by MMA guys. What are your thoughts about this? Well, first let me say
There's nothing wrong with mixed martial arts.
to learn than traditional kung fu.(...) You have a series of readily usable skill sets available to you
does kung fu work?
It's worked for me. I've been an executive protection person. I've been a soldier.(...) I've gotten in a couple of ruckuses.
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And since I learned my teacher's kung fu,(...) I haven't been beaten up. I'm not saying that I can't be beaten up. I'm saying that since I started this practice that I haven't been beaten up. I've met some of the most talented practitioners
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in the world of martial arts.(...)
again, kung fu is in danger.
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If
traditions aren't upheld, it's going to get weaker and weaker and weaker.
I think that starts again with
actually being students for a very long time and not wanting to be a teacher after the first week.
That's what's killing, two things are killing kung fu right now.
secretiveness
some of the people in the community(...) and
instant seafoods are the two things that are killing kung fu,
I'm just nodding my head again as
about
what's killing kung fu and partially what we're talking about with MMA is, I think there's, when you and I were learning, we sparred a lot.(...) And developing the fighting skills and taking it beyond the forms was really important. I wasn't, I didn't learn kung fu so I could do performances. I didn't learn kung fu so I could go compete in tournaments that never even occurred to me when I began starting. I learned kung fu so I'd be able to protect myself.
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And I was afraid of getting mugged. I was afraid of getting, and I'd been picked on. I'd been harassed and sometimes you're only one person. So no matter what, there's, especially back in the 80s and 90s, I think there was a real valid need for some self-defense training.(...) And after I had, after I really got some sparring skill, that's what my confidence developed. But a lot of people are not willing to do the time to just,
now you've learned some forms, you've developed some athleticism, but you really need to do some sparring and you need to do hours of it, not five minutes a class. You need to spend like an hour doing defensive training, an hour on footwork, hours and hours and hours with partners.
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And really,(...) that's what gives people the fighting skill. And if you're not doing that training and that kind of training, where you're actually sparring with people, people are putting on gloves and mouthpieces and headgear. But not before you're ready. But not before you're ready, but-- You have to develop the basic. Yeah. Just reinventing the wheel. I mean, you could come around in the box fighting, that's fine. But there are tried and true methods of self-development and self-defense that are available from the right teachers in the world of kung fu.
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Well, you know, one thing I also think about too in terms of kung fu and self-defense is that
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many of the techniques in kung fu are literally designed for self-defense and they're really not designed for sparring at all. They're just cruel, powerful techniques to hurt someone with. Martial arts is about killing.
kung fu techniques are more intricate. They take longer to develop all of the essences that you need to apply them in a real fight,
But I think 20 years of MMA and 20 years of kung fu practice,
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I'd be interested to see the outcome of two practitioners that had that sort of experience. I won't make any judgments about something. There is no better style. There's only better practitioners. And then that's really the bottom line is
you're training for professional fights and all you're doing in your entire life is preparing
your
training and sparring and getting ready for a professional fight, you're gonna be way better than any amateur practitioner. It simply doesn't matter.
You only need one technique.
The shoto kind guys, I'm very fond of them. I used to practice when I was young.
One punch, one kill is what they would say.
lot of people underrate karate,
traditional karate is suffering in the same way that traditional kung fu is.
spread of people that are unqualified to teach it or who
not even mastered the basics and are already online giving video instructions to people. Stop videotaping yourself, go practice.(...) Stop fooling around like that.
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(Screaming)
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There's so much pressure on social media to show this and show that it's supposed to be a secret. Keep it to yourself. Practice hard, practice quietly.
Yeah, I can't imagine posting training videos of myself back in the day.
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Thank you for having me
really appreciate it. I've got great respect for your teacher and your classmates and of course you.(...)
I am a lifelong dedicated practitioner of the Northern Shaolin style. My teacher's Kenneth Hui
is my father teacher. I shudder to think who I might be if I had not met that man. I'm eternally grateful.
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Well, I've always had a lot of admiration for both you and your teacher and he's had such a great impact on the martial arts world and on the Chinese martial arts community teaching Northern Shaolin. But I think all of your work
the entertainment community has been of enormous service to all of us and sort of raising a bit of awareness of the traditional Kung Fu in a way that was really intuitive and accessible for people.
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you for that. Since I've been here in the Bay Area, I've been introduced to a few people
and a couple of young people came up to me and kind of gushing just told me how much they enjoyed the show and how it had shaped their
years
thanked me for my participation in that project.
that is what warms my heart. That is what makes all that hard work
a payoff.(...)
Not the money, not the fame, but actually just some young girl or some young man coming up to me and going, I just really loved your work, thank you. That means the world to me.
Absolutely.
you're teaching someone and you see them experience real personal growth and they become a different, better, stronger, happier, healthier person, and it's through their long-term Kung Fu training,
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there's nothing more satisfying than that.
That's the real work right there.
(...) It's the real work. I don't care if you become a good fighter. I'm hoping that you become a good person.
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Hard working,(...) bettering yourself, becoming stronger and healthier.
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That's what it's all about.
Thank you for visiting us today, Kisu. It is my pleasure, Sheryl. I'll see you again soon. Thank you.
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